TTA09-Libby Robinson-Integral

Michael J. Mahony 0:13

Welcome to the technology Alchemist, your source for technology advice, strategic technology planning, technology coaching, time saving advice and a pragmatic look at increasing revenue and profit through your technology engine. I'm your host, Mike Mahoney, and our sponsor today is your virtual CTO. Your virtual CTO is a technology services company specializing in increasing your revenue and profit through a close examination of your technology engine. Your virtual CTO offers exclusive coaching for business leaders. That is the only business coaching program that includes technology as part of the program. If you want to learn more, how to make more money, tuning up your technology engine, head on over get your virtual CTO calm. Today I want to welcome my guest, Libby Robinson. She's the managing partner of integral and award winning leadership executive coaching and advisory company working with fortune 1000 companies globally. A former Wall Street banker, aerospace engineer, and national champion equestrian. Libby has worked for 26 years with senior leaders globally, helping to bring more mindfulness resilience and greater capacity to brilliant and ambitious leaders integral uses a multidisciplinary approach to foster deep personal change and leaders. And to evoke conscious leadership cultures for their clients. Libby's latest venture has been to launch backfeed plus a new app that helps individuals and organizations get better, faster feedback using a method backed by the latest neuroscience data about how individuals receive feedback with less stress. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Michael. That's quite a, that's quite a resume you have you've done a lot of a lot of different diverse things. But tell me what, tell me the you know, the mission of your company integral and how you're going about accomplishing that?

Libby Robinson 2:06

Yeah, great. So integral is really a passion. We've been around 16 years, we're considered a top leadership development company by HR calm and Brandon Hall. We're really about mindfulness and resilience, as you said in my intro, in leadership, because we really see that those are the kinds of fundamentals that create good leaders. And I'll tell you a quick story. A friend of mine, Steven tallman, who's the chief operating officer at Bain, big professional services consulting company, and he said, Oh, you know, we're talking about what we do here. And he said, maybe we just did this group, you know, big regression analysis about what makes our partner successful. Okay, that's good. What's the data? And he said, Well, there's 33 characteristics that make our partners successful. It's like, okay, 33, that's a lot. He said, But look, you only need three. So okay, well, that's better any three, he said, but not really, just any three, you could have three after three. But you have to have this one characteristic. And I said, Tell me, what is it? He said, it's mindfulness. And I was like, Well, you've just think, really, you just the data is just proved why I've been in existence for 16 years. And, you know, we have about 250, coaches, consultants, facilitators, and designers around the world working with businesses and business leaders. And that's really, to me mindfulness is that is the basis of good leadership. And that requires some self reflection requires some failures that require require some curiosity requires pivoting in times of crisis that requires being willing to ask for help and sometimes being vulnerable. So we know that there are amazing leaders out there and as you kind of go up the food chain, even if it's a smaller food chain, people are around you are a little less willing to tell you the truth. And so how one of the ways that we have found to be successful is by helping to create this intimate space within coaching. And I don't mean intimate in that way, but intimate space of being able to be deeply listened to, and to be witnessed and kind of like a Sherpa on a mountain, to be able to help people through difficult decisions, culture changes, transformations, mergers, and just getting the best out of their people.

Michael J. Mahony 4:32

So you say that people are less less willing to tell you the truth about things as you go higher up the food chain. Why do you think that is?

Unknown Speaker 4:43

there's a there's a natural power dynamic. As you go on, whether it's positional power, you know, again, depends on the Lord on the organization. But one of the things that we haven't cultivated a lot or taught leaders a lot about is how to do develop trust within your organization. Trust is a currency trust is like money, the more you have it, the more likely you're going to be able to be of service and also that people are going to be able to be honest with you. And I think one as we push and push and push for more and more and more and kind of economies of scale, we sort of the personal kind of comes out of it. And so people worry, you know, especially you, I lived in France for 26 years, and in this country, we have at will firing, which is a good thing and a bad thing. It's got unintended consequences on on both sides. So if I say something to you, and you're my boss, and you write my performance review, and then you tell three other people, you start to create an organizational story around me. So if I think you've got some might wield some power, and I'm worried about what I might say, where I've seen the way you react, and you have a kind of a volcanic reaction, when somebody says something to you that you don't like, you know, it's so that's why for entrepreneurs creating a culture of openness and trust and support, I tell every one of our consultants that Health and Family come first. And then and then I mean that. And so I've said that a lot of times during during this COVID time, but a lot before that. And then what happens is when they know that that's true, then they work harder. And they they they're they're all in when they know that they you know, you've kind of got their back.

Michael J. Mahony 6:33

So is there anything like as a CEO? Is there anything someone can do to make their team comfortable giving them the honest feedback that they're looking for?

Unknown Speaker 6:45

Yes, I think there's a couple of things. I think the first thing is that the only response to feedback in the moment is Thank you. That's it, you know, I mean, it doesn't the feedback may be about you, it may be more about them, it may be useful, it might miss the mark, but receive it and be grateful for it because somebody actually was courageous enough to do that. Don't defend yourself. You might be curious and possibly ask a clarifying question if you don't understand. But say, you know, let me think about that. I really appreciate it. And that just knowing that I can say that, and that it might have been difficult for them. And this goes into the neuroscience actually mic and why we created backfeed Plus, but so there's a researcher Dr. TESSA wested at New York University. And I met her back in 2018. And she had just finished some, some research on on feedback, which was great because we were building this app. And she felt she had three main findings. The first is it's stressful to receive feedback for your brain, like no kidding, I've been in this business 26 years. And if somebody you know, kind of calls me and says, Hey, can I give you some feedback about that presentation? You know, I'm gonna say yes, but my brain is going, Oh, my God, what are they gonna say? Right? It just is natural, we're predisposed to have a higher, you know, threat response. So we know that that happens. So if so that was the first finding. It's also stressful to give it which is why we were talking earlier. You know, when you're asking your assistant for something that didn't work, it's harder for her she might go blegh, it's harder face to face, you know. And the third finding, which I found really interesting in the web, why we created this app, the way we did is that the only way it's less stressful for you to receive feedback, because if you proactively ask for it, if you proactively ask for it, your brain is auto primed to be in a place where you really want to receive it. So it turns out that one of my missions now is to blow up the 360 degree feedback industry, which is something like $6 billion in the United States. It is bad, fuzzy, awful data. Even the United States military has come out and denounced 60s as being ineffective. Marcus Buckingham says a big HR guru in 2011. And again, in 2019, wrote articles for the HR for Harvard Business Review, saying, hey, look, guys, you you ought to get rid of this. So this is why we created backfeed Plus,

Michael J. Mahony 9:26

I can tell you, I used to. It's been 10 years since I've worked for anybody else. But when I worked for this one company, we learned rather quickly that we used to deliver food for restaurants. And we learned quickly that people will give negative feedback a lot faster than they'll give positive feedback. So it's natural for you to think, Hey, can I give you some feedback on that for you to think, oh, they're about to unload on me. But what we what we did to combat that, and I actually use it to this day with my clients that want to track this kind of stuff. They'll insist on doing surveys and then I'll say, Well, what does it tell you? That you that you got, you know, sixes on most things instead of 10s? And I say, I don't know, I don't know, we must be doing terribly well not necessarily, you know, how about you use what's what the call Net Promoter Score where you drop, the lower and the higher? And you look at what's in where you fit in the middle, are you the high middle or the low middle? And it's, it helped us figure out what our customers wanted. Because we were we weren't bogged down, because we've all seen it, right? You go on Amazon, and you look at a product and you're looking at the reviews, and someone says, This product is amazing. It's Bah, blah, blah, and then you look and like it's a one star because it didn't do something they wanted it to do. But you say, Well, why is it? Why is it a one star? I wouldn't have rated it a one star if that was the case. So you kind of have to think about that. When you get feedback that it's it's the perp, what is the purpose of the feedback coming back to you? Are they trying to help you? Are they trying to say that, oh, maybe redo this whole thing? You got to figure that out? I think so how does how does your app work? And how does it help with with getting correct feedback, because I think, the correct feedback, anyone can do surveys, but you've got to get the right feedback, or you're really your data is useless.

Unknown Speaker 11:16

Absolutely. So thank you for asking. So backfeed Plus, by the way, is is available and it's free. The basic version is free, you can get it on, you know, Google Play, or the App Store anywhere you get your apps. So that's the first thing. So for small entrepreneurs, you can download it and you can have your people download it. And it's it's pretty much plug and play, you can understand how that works. So what it does is it uses those exact neuroscientific results that Tesla westbound, and gives people the ability to proactively request first you build what we call a tribe. Now, some people think that's cultural appropriation. But the idea is, it's not your team, you pick up to seven people. This could be some, this could be a third party vendor, this could be two of your peers, and maybe a direct report, but not your boss, it could be Think of this as your tribe of people that are going to give you honest feedback, they're not going to just sugarcoat things, they're going to know that you have trust in them. Remember, I talked about how important the currency of trust is. And so you get up to seven people that you invite they accept or not. And then you practically, basically, and I'm happy to come back at some point and give you a demo, I'll send you to a place where you can get a demo on backfeed app calm. And

Unknown Speaker 12:37

and basically you say okay, well, look, I'm looking for Michael to give me some feedback on my storytelling ability. So basically, I click it says, you know, request backfeed, there's a set of about 13, or 14 themes, I pick one of those themes, you know, in their business II type themes, they might be around sincerity, storytelling, digital savviness, Executive presence, you know, overall competence in my role, whatever, I pick a theme to a second, I if I want, I can say, hey, look at that sales meeting we did yesterday. So I could tag it to a particular event if I want to, or not. And then it's got some pre chewed questions through usually three questions in that theme. So I'll have to do is pick one of those questions. And then I can pick any number of my tribe members, or I can pick them all. That whole process that I just described, takes 30 seconds or less. And then that goes off to the other person who's part of my tribe, who then already has the app. So it works on a network effect. It can start being you know, there's more and more people that have had the app. And then you if I asked you about my storytelling, you know, you might be busy for the next few hours. It's not like if I walked around the corner and said, Hey, Mike, I want to know about my storytelling, you're like, what am I gonna say to her, right, I've just met her. So this way, it's done in an asynchronous way. So you get it. When you've got a little bit more time and you've had some time to think about it, you then have the ability through the app to either type back a response, you know, text back if you want, which is kind of classic, or you can do audio, or you can do video. And the reason that we put the audio and video in is how often have you read a piece of feedback or you've read an email and you're like, what, and you go away and come back, and then you read the email again, it says something completely different. Because we're reading so fast, we're reading sideways, sometimes we don't always get the flavor and the meaning and the intention behind words. So having the audio in the video, just like we're doing here, gives people that understanding of Hey, I'm trying to, I'm trying to give you a piece of advice, or I'm trying to give you my opinion, or you know what I think might be useful for you next time. And then the last thing so that's so it's asynchronous it means and this is what the neuroscience says it used to be. If any of you You're entrepreneurs or your audience out there in HR, they taught you you should give feedback right after as soon as possible after it's happens, right turns out wrong. That's not correct for your brain. They taught it the sandwich method, which is say something good, say something developmental say something good again, and hopefully they'll eat the sandwich, right? your brains too smart for that, that your brain is all over that they know something's coming when you start to say this, and then you say that. So what this does is the asynchronous way, allows me to ask whenever I want to ask to the people who I think will be honest brokers, and then for those people that are in my tribe, it gives them the time to think and it the the actual audio or video takes one minute. It's a maximum of one minute, so it keeps you short and sharp. And the last thing I'll say about backfeed. For now, is 360 reports. One of the things that is also makes people crazy. And that kind of thing is it's anonymous data, what does it mean that I'm a 3.2? on managing ambiguity, right? What does it mean? It doesn't mean anything. And also, if you're comparing apples to oranges, you had 12 people that you talk to you in the beginning of the year, and then five of those people have left and you've got another 12 people. And so how can we compare those numbers? The answers are waiting the answers we can't. So with backfeed there's it what you say to me is completely an on out anonymous, completely confidential between you and I. So that's something else in 360s. Often, your the HR team can kind of look in to see how that 360 went, right. And it takes time and money to debrief it. You know, it's not cheap 360s. And so, what we do is when you when you give me feedback,

Unknown Speaker 16:53

I actually get to rate your feedback. Now it isn't doesn't go right to you like oh, I'm you know, you're a to you didn't like your feedback. So I'm going to read it that basically says there's four criteria. Is it timely? So did you do it? You know, within a few days, you know, kind of remember what the heck you're talking about? Did you know is it accurate? Did you do some sort of observable data? Hey, when you said this in the sales meeting, right? Is it useful? Meaning do I say something that's helpful? Or am I just whining? Do I give you something may be practical to do in the future? Hey, Mike, this was really great that you gave me 15 minutes here to get settled before we went right in. And what I'd love even more is x. And then the final thing is, does it demonstrate empathy? And so does the feedback. is it all about me? Or does it show that I'm really trying to actually support you? So we feel that those four criteria are really important in good feedback? It doesn't matter the exact words you say. But if you have accuracy, and timeliness, and usefulness and empathy, chances are you've got good feedback.

Michael J. Mahony 18:10

Well, it's funny, because as I listen to it's something perhaps I've done instinctively. But you know, I used to coach a lot of youth sports. And I can remember, especially in baseball, baseball, dads are very intense. And I was always taught to, as a coach to give positive feedback, observe what's going on, and then come up with a plan. That's why you have practice, you know, you don't give you know, correction or feedback during the game. All it does is tear the kid down. And I had many dads say, you know, how come like your son goes up to bat, he struck out, you just pat him on the back and said, Good job. Why? Why is that? Well, because I watched what he did. Maybe Maybe there's, you know, Major League Baseball player strikeout a lot, too, you know, I watched what he did, I saw how he responded to the situation. And maybe there's one thing I can correct maybe in his swing, or his understanding of the strike zone or something of that nature. But Now's not the time for that. The time for that is when we're at practice, where he can practice it and learn what he's doing so that he can then take it to the next game and put it into practice. Well, conversely, because of that, my naturally my my kids that I coached got better and better and better and better. They didn't stagnate, because they knew that when they played the game, they were out there to have a good time. No one was going to yell and scream with them. And then when we went to practice, we were going to work hard to get better. So I think that's also part of the feedback thing. It also makes me think back to that same company. They used the the 360 reviews, and I honestly never in in 10 years never felt those helpful because of like you say, What do you mean I'm at 3.2 and this, what does that exactly mean? You know, and why is it 3.2 And where's the feedback? How come? Why, why? Why can't I ask questions about this? It was never helpful, then we switched to a method of, we would do things like what's working and what's not working in your department. And that was a lot more positive. Because I could sit down and say, well, customer service hasn't been as good as it should be for my tech team. You know, how do we fix that? It gives you things you can approach that are tangible, and that will make a difference, rather than silly. I can't think of the word but like esoteric, weird feedback that you get, like you said, you're a 3.2, on your ability to handle criticism. So what does that mean? And how do I improve from a 3.2? To a five or whatever? So I'm with you. So the, the question that I have for you is what? Okay, so so like, like, I have a team of about 15 people that work with me, if I wanted to use your app? How can I use it to help me improve my business?

Unknown Speaker 21:03

Sure, sure. So it's a great question. And I would say so first of all, backseat plus is a developmental tool. So it's not specifically tied to the bottom line. But I'll tell you this, if you're managing people, and you're managing people that, like technology, this is a great way especially many of us are still remote because of the pandemic and probably will remain remote for a long time. And unless you're the most methodical person who always does one to ones on a regular basis, and gives people time, and really is there, like a baseball coach, comm CEO, then chances are people are not getting enough feedback. We did some research with the ACE HR Research Institute, with HR comm in 2019, about performance management, basically saying that most performance management systems don't work. So if you're an entrepreneur and looking at trying to, you know, Institute some of these things for for your HR, your learning area, what backfeed does is it gives you you there's a free tool, there's also what we have is a enterprise wide analytics. So even though all the conversations between people are completely black, but black box organization never sees that, you can start to see themes of how how engaged, your your teams are about giving feedback, you can see what are the top things they're asking about the top questions you can see kind of top, you know, who are the people who are like the stars, that feedback, right? So you can give them some kudos and encourage them and maybe help them help others. So from a learning perspective, it's an inexpensive tool or free tool, depending on how you want to use it, if you want to, if you want to use it for with the enterprise web analytics. And by the way, it's also customizable. So all of the questions, all of the themes are customizable. And in our white label version, we can also do multiple languages and things like that. So we're looking at working with some home health care agencies where Spanish is a primary language. And so being able to ask for backfeed in a different language and be able to have that is also something so what it is, is it's a it's a it's a lever to performance that I we're really excited about. We're working with some big global companies, and starting to pilot and rollout we just we just put this out on July 2020. And so looking forward to telling you more about it as it expands.

Michael J. Mahony 23:44

What's really exciting to me, because as a leader of a team, I have some people who are I'm a very blunt person, both both ways. So I if someone asked me, I'll tell them how I feel about something. I'm not afraid of repercussions. I once I once worked for the named partner of a law firm, and it bothered me how much he would cuss and scream. And so I told him one day Hey, Bob, if you want do you like working with me? He said, Yeah, I said, you want to keep working with me. You need to stop cussing and screaming. Like it's just there's no reason for it. He stopped. A lot of people told me Oh, that was dangerous. He could have fired him. He could have. But I was I was gonna quit. So you know, what did I have to lose? Right? But but as a person running a team, I have some people who are very honest with their feedback, because they know that I'll accept it. Then there's other people that I can clearly tell. They talk around the question and they avoid the question. So this sounds like a tool. That'd be amazing because I wondered about the overall like combining all of the data to be able to see a trend because I think that's important. If five different people all ask the same or all asked the same ol asking the same kind of questions. That's an interesting thing to note what's going on there, but also to see the feedback that people are getting. And where people feel people fit on these on the spectrum of things. That would be an interesting piece of data. And I'm all about, to me, one of the things I preach to my clients is, it's all about the process. And so having a process to get feedback, you're right, most people have either performance reviews, let's be real, I just had a meeting like this recently with somebody who, she's a great employee, but she's made a lot of small mistakes. And there's a reason for it, which we won't go into, but there's definitely a reason for it. But in talking to her about it, the normal way, it wasn't very effective. But what I finally did, and we sat her down, and we said, Look, you know, you're affecting the bottom line by making some of these mistakes. And that means you're affecting everybody on the team. Oh, I never really thought about that. My personal issues are affecting everybody on the team. And I think when you when we appealed to her sensibilities, and that way, everything flipped around, but also by coming at it from the standpoint of, hey, we're a team, we need to work together as a team. And here's our feedback to you. And it's honest, and we're not going to be mean about it, we're just going to be honest about it. She in turn, wanted to step up her game, and has as a result, and that's really ultimately Think about it. Why give feedback, if you're not expecting something to change get better, you know, I'll just use change, because improving or not improving, you know, improving or getting worse, that's changed, right? So and but it's nice to be able to give somebody feedback, like I actually remember reading a book that, gosh, I can't think of the title right now. But it has to do with how to give criticism, but in a positive way. And I think feedback is something everybody struggles with. So it's sort of a technology guy, it's sort of cool to me that you've put it down into an app that people can use to get, well, what is the word we use before effective and valid feedback? because anybody can sit down and go through a quiz and go, Okay, I write that a three I write data to write that a four write that a six, but what is completely subjective? It's not what is what do you know, you say that it's true, because like, one of the things I've had in the past is, we were required to pull department managers about our tech support service. And I, this guy gives us a two, and I'm thinking to myself on hardware, I'm thinking to myself, why does he have a problem with my hardware support? So I talked to him personally, oh, Anthony had a problem with his laptop. And it took three times to fix it. So I gave you a two well, but wait, you're supposed to be writing, how your department experience and and Anthony's not in your department, you know, and that's, that's the thing people do with those quizzes, whatever their brain interprets them. They're thinking they're going to change something by giving me a two. But all they're doing is throwing a monkey wrench in the system, because it's not accurate. So that's actually pretty interesting. So tell me, what does the future hold for for this app? I mean, what do you see? What are your next steps? What do you see happening? You said you just released it in July? So we're, we're in what? November? So it's only been a few months? Although, yeah, but 2020 I feel like the whole year has been

Unknown Speaker 28:28

exactly

Michael J. Mahony 28:30

nothing for anyone to do anywhere. So but what what is what are the next steps for you for that?

Unknown Speaker 28:35

So we are doing demos, like, all get out right now to different companies. We're just trying to get the word out. So I think there's two main ways as an entrepreneur, there's the basic b2b sale in business to business, where individual businesses are buying this as part of their HR tech stack. And there's lots of other things that are out there. No one does this. There's all these engagement surveys there's glint, there's stand out, there's, you know, other things and we keep saying to people, we're not that we're this so it's a niche play. We're looking we're having conversations with thing with companies like ServiceNow and HR bamboo and Cornerstone to be one of their, in their ecosystem and Oracle as well, we just had a conversation with Oracle, which was kind of fun because they're like, really huge. And we if we can get into their their ecosystem as being one of the things that there are our stuff plays nice with all our API's set up so that they can pull from us or they can give to us. Then that's I think, where we go. Ultimately though, what I want is to basically continue to say to companies out there, you want to save some money. Do you want to you know, do something that's you know, gonna revolutionize a little bit what you're doing or Round your people get rid of your 360 degree feedback. Um, and, you know, replace it with something else. And then we have a couple of different things, but backfeed is one of them. So that's where we're heading. Obviously, we're a full service company. So we do customized leadership, you know, executive in team coaching. We do sales meetings and storytelling stories, you know, storyboard and storytel, for large, large and small companies, actually. And that's where the nexus of people in technology, I think one of the things we're so we're so on this big, you know, curve into digital transformation, I think my mission is to keep people at the center of that. So that we're not just cogs in the technology wheel. But we that technology is serving us and making our lives better, and helping us connect more versus, you know, sure, all the repeatable, boring paper pushing tasks that you want. I'm all for that. And we help a lot of companies that are doing those digital transformations for other companies. I do worry sometimes that we don't think about the unintended consequences of, you know, how do we keep people creative and involved and,

Unknown Speaker 31:24

you know, employed,

Unknown Speaker 31:27

but so that we don't have some societal issues. But I'm not for just keeping things the way they were. So keeping people at the heart of technology is, is important. So digital is really human. And then I would just say we need to avoid snack defying everything. So what I mean, like, I've gone to see some new clients, where they say, okay, so do you have a little 30 minute leadership model module? And I'm like, No. Go to LinkedIn learning, if you want that. Yeah. So think of that there are some wisdom traditions, there are some ways of being that we need to slow down and we need to connect in order to understand each other. Right, we might be on different sides of the political spectrum, I have no idea. But even if we were, if I'm able to slow down, and understand what mindfulness and leadership is, I can then connect with you. And we can find a way forward things again, that's at the heart of leadership. So there's, um, I just the snack application. Sorry, that's my new word. just drives me absolutely bananas. So if any of your your folks are listening, I'm on a secret mission. There's a company out there called better up, which is basically commoditized coaching. It's like, oh, here, you can have a coach on your phone in 15 minutes won't be the same coach. And yeah, now that stuff, and I'm like, I've seen any, I'm a master certified coach. I've been doing this for a really long time. I'm not saying that there aren't things that can't can get, you know, you can't improve. There's lots of things you can improve. But the deep transformational work that leaders want and need, you know, you don't just do that. It takes some time.

Michael J. Mahony 33:21

You've talked about understanding. And I mean, you brought it up in the perfect context to have, you know, which side of the political spectrum somebody's on. And one thing that I've always said to people in having those discussions is, I'm not so much. Not the word interested, but I'm not so much concerned by what you believe I'm concerned more about, can you explain to me why you believe it, because I want to understand where you're coming from. And in my opinion, if we were to talk about an issue that was political, if I can understand where you're coming from, and you can understand where I'm coming from, we could be 180 degrees opposite of each other. But we could get through that conversation in a civil way. And also perhaps find ways we can work together to improve the very topic that we're talking about. But it has to be there has to be an understanding. And unfortunately, in this day and age, not only are people you know, sacrificing things, but they're there. They're taking their talking points from one place. They're not thinking about their talking points, and they're just using them. And then when they get asked the hard question, Well, why can you explain why you said that? They can't. And I think that's part of that's also based off of, in my opinion, it comes from a society where we don't know how to give feedback. So if we don't know how to give feedback, we don't know how to answer the why questions. You know, why? Why do you feel that way? I don't know. Why do I feel that way? Or you maybe maybe you should figure that out. So we need to wrap up. But I wanted to say, I want to say I think you for one thing I feel like I need to have you back on again, because there seems like a lot we could talk about in the realm of feedback. And I think it's something that entrepreneurs especially need we've, we've gotten to a place in society where so many people want to work for themselves, but they're not prepared to that these are tools that if someone's serious about improving as a business owner, these are tools that you need to look into, and utilize. And honestly, I'd say right now, we were actually planning for your virtual CTO, we're planning to create a page of tools that we use. And I definitely want to feature this tool there, because I've yet to find any kind of, and maybe that's something we can do, I think I'm going to get my team on this app. And then maybe, maybe in a month or two, maybe we're on the top of the year, we could get back together again, and I can talk to you about how well it worked, what I saw, and we can, you know, maybe talk about it in real world terms, to say that, and I think anybody who wants to, you know, anyone who wants to try this app, you can go to backfeed app.com. And learn more about it. You can also go to integral coaches comm find out more about Libby's company and what what she and her team do. It's a very informative website, I spent some time looking through it. But thanks again, so much for being on here. Is there anything you want to close to say to the audience before we end this,

Unknown Speaker 36:18

just between now and the end of 2020, we're giving away two months of our pro version for free. So people can get both the free app and the enterprise wide analytics if they want to try it, which hopefully is a is a good thing. And I would love to and happy to give a demo to you, you and your team Mike. Afterwards, just separate from this, but would love to come back and talk about many different things that just in the simple world of language and linguistics that can help entrepreneurs really simply with even no technology, just a few simple, simple tools. All right.

Michael J. Mahony 36:57

Well, thanks again so much for being on it. Thanks for listening to the technology Alchemist.